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<  Mighty Whites!  ~  2am Friday morning...

Dave
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:14 am Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 1299 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Predictable I guess. Hopefully fires the lads up, win the playoffs, don't accept the trophy and tell the Football League to get fucked.

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James
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:17 am Reply with quote
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Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 925
fuck u diary
fuck u football league
fuck u the panel
fuck u ken bates u fucking cretin who got us into this mess
fuck u gillingham chairman
fuck u scum
fuck u alistair u cunt

mostly FUCK YOU MAWHINNEY

I HOPE YOU DIE YOU CUNT



ffs.....this football club always finds a way to shoot you down

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exlowfieldsroada
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:42 am Reply with quote
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Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 527 Location: SYDNEY NSW
James wrote:
fuck u diary
fuck u football league
fuck u the panel
fuck u ken bates u fucking cretin who got us into this mess
fuck u gillingham chairman
fuck u scum
fuck u alistair u cunt

mostly FUCK YOU MAWHINNEY

I HOPE YOU DIE YOU CUNT

my sentiments exactly.
BUT WE ARE LEEDS HOLD YOUR HEADS UP LADS
ON ON ON

Fuck emmmmmm



ffs.....this football club always finds a way to shoot you down

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LS 11
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:56 am Reply with quote
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Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 1048 Location: Melbourne Australia
And my beauty sleep didnt work either Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

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tim
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:58 am Reply with quote
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we are leeds, fuck the rest...

not all surprised now when i think about it, like they were going to put us in auto promotion and kick some other club out into the playoffs.. justice or any notion of fairness has nothing to do with it, when every other club hates your guts, expect nothing. we'll go through the playoffs, smash everyone on the way and it will be even sweeter.
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HarryofOz
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:18 pm Reply with quote
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Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 323 Location: Riverwood, Sydney

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Having read the linked document (I know others have linked it but I want to keep it in my message sorry) now I can come to one conclusion and one conclusion only…we have been screwed…and screwed big time, by the manipulating (I'll stop short of saying lying) Ken Bates and his equally manipulative cronies. They and they alone bear whole, sole and total responsibility for the situation we find ourselves in – in the lowest league we have ever been, with a 15-point penalty and with the chance we will not be promoted. If we ever do become successful again it will be in spite of their self-serving actions and arrogance. Their belief, that the rules don't apply to them and that don't have to follow the proper procedures that everyone else has to follow.

Bates and his cronies have misled us from the very beginning starting with the issue of the fifteen points being deducted.

The following paragraph applies to the fact that we emerged from administration without a CVA (as required by the league) and with a new owner at the helm

Quote:
14. Normally Regulation 11 requires that a new Member (i.e. Leeds NewCo) should start the following season in a lower League (here L2). Leeds NewCo wanted to avoid this ‘relegation’ and to ensure Leeds stayed in L1 it was prepared to pay a price to achieve this. The Football League was receptive to the idea and indicated that it might be prepared to exercise its discretion to permit this to happen.


So it was not a case, as Bates and his cronies have tried to lead us to believe, that the FL simply imposed the 15-point penalty on us because of the way we came out of administration. In fact under the FL rules we should have started the season in League 2 but WE went to them to ask for special dispensation and said WE were prepared to pay the price for doing so. Has the manipulator Bates ever mentioned this – certainly not to my memory.

The following paragraph is about the imposition of the penalty and the subsequent appeal that was heard by the other clubs in the league.

Quote:
19. On 2 August 2007 the Administrators informed the Club that there was no prospect of the CVA proceeding and that they intended to abort the CVA and resign their positions. Mr Taylor wrote to the Football League but did not mention the points deduction nor make any representations as to why it should be varied or waived. Mr Bates rang Lord Mawhinney. We accept Lord Mawhinney’s account that Mr Bates asked that if the 15 point deduction was imposed he could appeal against it. Lord Mawhinney suggested that he would be prepared to recommend that to the Board but the appeal should be to the member clubs because it was the member clubs that the Board was supposed to be representing. Mr Bates agreed to this suggestion and Lord Mawhinney agreed to put his proposal to the Board which he did on the following day.


So Bates knew all along that is what would be happening and agreed to it, but still bellowed like a stuck pig when it did.

The following is about the letter sent by Leeds to the FL in relation to the penalty once it was confirmed by the FL board.

Quote:
20. On 3 August 2007 a Board meeting was held when the 15 point deduction was confirmed and an appeal to the League was agreed to. Later that day Mr Taylor wrote to the Football League objecting to the points deduction on the basis that it was outside the powers of the Board or was an improper exercise of its discretion. However Mr Bates by telephone informed the Football League that this letter had been sent without his authority and that it should be withdrawn. Mr Taylor wrote a second letter acknowledging the receipt of the proposed Agreement (which included Clause 4) asking that his earlier letter should be disregarded and confirming that:
"the conditions set out in your letter are acceptable to [the Claimants] save that the Company will appeal against the 15 point deduction ... with a view to the penalty being either withdrawn or reduced." He told us that he wrote the second letter because it did not accurately reflect what had been agreed.

So first Taylor writes a formal letter that wasn't even the agreed position and then he's told by Bates to withdraw it and he does. Taylor showing how much he can be trusted and believed and Bates showing he accepts the FL board's decision. The appeal referred to is the appeal to the other clubs by the way.

The following paragraph is about the FL applying the 'exceptional circumstances' rule and allowing Leeds to play in League 1

Quote:
32. As already described Leeds NewCo (and in particular Mr Bates and Mr Mark Taylor) were well aware that in order to secure this indulgence the Board was stipulating that in order to remain in L1 the Club would have to start the new season with a 15 point deficit. This had been agreed by Mr Bates on behalf of the consortium, as the price which had to be paid for the indulgence and they were prepared to pay it – subject only to an Appeal to the League.


So Bates and his cronies knew exactly what it was all about when the agreed that the only appeal they would undertake would be the one to the league.

The following is the conclusion

Quote:
36. We are satisfied that the Claimants case begins and ends with the Compromise Agreement which clearly embodied the intention of both parties. Taking the Agreement as a whole and in particular Clause 4 Leeds NewCo agreed to the imposition of the 15 points and to release the League from the claims which have now been advanced and to waive any rights to do so. Leeds NewCo specifically covenanted not to bring the claims it has now sought to assert and there is no basis to allow it not to honour that covenant.

The Tribunal dismisses the Claim on this ground alone.


So there was a legally binding agreement between Leeds and the FL and this was sufficient to dismiss Bates' claim.

Later on the Tribunal also refer to Leeds' delays but even if you disagree with those, the decision above renders that meaningless. What is does show is what truth manipulators Bates and his cronies are.

The following is about a letter sent by Taylor to the FL

Quote:
39. Subsequently, on 4 February 2008, the League received from Mark Taylor, the solicitor acting for the First Claimant, what purported to be a letter before action in the High Court on behalf of the First Claimant in relation to the Condition. That letter did not meet the requirements of the CPR and the Football League directors rejected the letter on that ground.


Another waste of time. Sending documents that don't even meet the requirements they are supposed to meet. That way it looks like it’s the FL that are delaying (typical truth manipulation by Bates and his cronies). Reminds me of the whole situation before the season when Bates and his cronies couldn't even be bothered to furnish the FL with the documents needed to further our case and couldn't even be bothered to turn up to meetings arranged for Leeds' benefit.

The following is about a letter sent to Leeds by the FL in relation to Barnsley purported support of Leeds claim (more truth manipulation by Bates and his cronies).

Quote:
41. On 20 February 2008, Bird & Bird wrote to Mark Taylor & Co., pointing out that the parties were subject to a valid pre-existing agreement to submit any disputes between them to arbitration and therefore asking them to agree to a stay of the proceedings in favour of a FA Rule K arbitration. No reply was received to that letter by the stated deadline and therefore Bird & Bird sent a chaser letter on the evening of 25 February 2008.

42. In response, NewCo’s solicitor accepted that the dispute was covered by FA Rule K, and, despite some delay, signed a Consent Order on behalf of the First Claimant, providing for the mandatory stay of the proceedings in favour of a FA Rule K arbitration. Mark Taylor agreed to conduct the arbitration on an expedited basis, because of the potential impact on 2007/08 final League standings. The full hearing on the merits was therefore provisionally scheduled for 16-18 April 2008.

43. However, no such agreement was forthcoming on behalf of Barnsley. Instead, it became apparent that Mark Taylor did not have authority to act on behalf of Barnsley. On 25 February 2008, the League received a letter by fax from Brabners Chaffe Street LLP, acting “on behalf of Barnsley Football Club Limited”. The letter states:
“... We understand that our client has telephoned your Lord Mawhinney to inform you that our client did not agree to lend its name to the above proceedings and that it had not approved the Particulars of Claim before they were filed at Court (or indeed since). We are investigating the position on behalf of our client but wish to set the record straight at this earliest opportunity ...”

44. On 25 February 2008, Bird & Bird sent a letter by fax asking Mark Taylor for his urgent comments on the suggestion in Brabners’ letter that the proceedings had been brought without Barnsley’s authority. No such comments were received. Over the following days, Bird & Bird sought (without success) clarification on the position of Barnsley from Mark Taylor.

45. On 7 March Bird & Bird called Mark Taylor to clarify, as a matter of urgency, whether or not he was authorised to act for Barnsley in relation to the proceedings.

46. On 11 March Bird & Bird received an email sent on behalf of Mark Taylor attaching a copy of the Notice of Discontinuance signed on behalf of Barnsley. On the same day Bird & Bird filed at Court the signed Consent Order and a copy of the Notice of Discontinuance.

47. Thus there was a delay of about 5 weeks primarily due to the misconceived High Court proceedings commenced by NewCo’s solicitors and their conduct of them.

So Bates and his cronies lie and even though they no the procedures they should be following can't be bothered to follow them. And Bates and his cronies (who supposedly so anxious to do things for Leeds' benefit) can't even be bothered to reply to correspondence that could affect Leeds' very future – creating more and more delays. Delays not caused by the FL as Bates and his fellow truth manipulating cronies state, but delays caused by Bates his cronies themselves.

The following is about more delays in the to the arbitration proceedings

Quote:
48. On 4 March 2008, Bird & Bird sent Mark Taylor a letter by fax confirming that the League agreed to the First Claimant’s request that Arbitration be conducted in an expedited manner and set out some practical measures for achieving this. They included that (i) the First Claimant serve a Notice of Arbitration, as required pursuant to FA Rule K2(a)(i), in order to commence the Arbitration proceedings; and (ii) Leeds serve a Points of Claim in order to assist the tribunal to define and identify the true issues for the tribunal. The letter invited Mark Taylor to serve the Points of Claim by 10 March 2008.

49. On 7 March 2008, Bird & Bird received a letter from Mark Taylor sent by fax, in which he agreed to serve a Notice of Arbitration but stated that the Points of Claim would consist of the Particulars of Claim issued in the High Court.

50. On Saturday 8 March, Jonathan Taylor of Bird & Bird sent a letter by email to Mark Taylor requesting (among other things) that the Notice of Arbitration be served during the morning of 10 March 2008 at the latest and that a hearing of the tribunal be convened at short notice for the purpose of making directions on 11, 12 or 13 March 2008.

51. On 9 March 2008, Jonathan Taylor received an email from Mark Taylor confirming that the Notice of Arbitration would be served on 10 March 2008. In fact, the Notice of Arbitration was not served until 19 March 2008. Thereafter there may have been some dilatoriness on behalf of the Claimant but we do not regard it as critical or significant.

52. Leeds NewCo has neither tendered a credible explanation nor convincing excuse for their delay.


So once again we see Bates and his cronies not following the proper procedures and once again we see them delaying the hearing due their own actions and NOT the actions of the FL. And then they can't even be bothered to explain the delays properly.
The following are in relation to their conclusion
Quote:

53. It is inescapable that if the appropriate Arbitration proceedings had been commenced in August or September or even October 2007 they would have been capable of resolution before the end of 2007. Given the date when these proceedings were started (19 March) and the first day of the Hearing before this Tribunal (16 April) it is obvious that our decision could have been given comfortably before the end of 2007.

54. With this history of events we are satisfied that there has been unreasonable and inexcusable delay on the part of Leeds NewCo. It is plain that Leeds NewCo was in the same position in August as it was in March when it finally got around to commencing these Arbitral Proceedings. It was imperative that the appropriate action was taken expeditiously. When the High Court proceedings were commenced they were in breach of the Arbitration Clause in the Regulations. Even before the arbitration proceedings were finally commenced, the Claimants were dilatory in initiating them.

55. There was no reason, if Leeds NewCo were genuinely concerned and disgruntled with the outcome of the League Members decision on 9 July, why they should not or could not commence Regulation K arbitration proceedings soon thereafter. This step could have been taken simultaneously with the Regulation K proceedings against the Football Association. They then held back and commenced the misconceived and abortive High Court proceedings. By delaying seven months before commencing these proceedings (August – March) they were in danger of prejudicing the other Clubs in League 1 who were also fighting for promotion.


This is from an independent body – including a representative chosen by Leeds – showing clearly who is responsible for the delays despite the truth manipulations by Bates and his cronies. It's clear they didn't follow the proper procedures to get an arbitration hearing earlier on in the season despite the truth manipulations by Bates.

The following is something I don't agree with it does raise an issue.

Quote:
58. We have no doubt that if this dispute had been promptly and properly brought, then the other clubs vying for promotion might have addressed their season in a different way. Until 19 March they will have proceeded on the legitimate assumption that there was to be no challenge and that the 15 points would not be restored. This late challenge brought uncertainty to the League near the end of the season at a time when other clubs had an understandable hope and expectation that they would enjoy automatic promotion, or the opportunity to compete for promotion through the play-off. In Stevenage Borough Football Club v The Football League Ltd CH [1996] 5 No 3043 Carnwath J was dealing with a similar case of delay and dismissed the proceedings. We see no reason to depart from his approach and apply it to the instant case.

We also dismiss the Claimant’s Claim on the ground of Leeds NewCo’s unreasonable and inexcusable delay in bringing the claim to this Arbitration.

I don't believe that that should have been a factor and I don't think the other teams should have taken our 15-point penalty into account or to use that as an argument that its unfair to give us the points now. Every team should be going out to get as many points as possible. Its interesting that there is a precedent though which puts to death the ridiculous claim of Leeds being special victims.

In any event it shows that Bates and his cronies delays did count against us. However we would have lost the claim anyway taking previous points into account.

The following is about the claim that the FL did not have the right to impose the 15-point penalty.

Quote:
62. We are satisfied that by virtue of Article 41, Article 4 and Article 6 the Board had all the requisite authority to exercise its powers and discretion to impose a Condition of a 15 point deduction. Moreover, the Insolvency Policy (in particular G5), properly construed, did not prevent the Board imposing the Condition. The assertion that the Board lacked the power to impose the Condition is unsustainable.


This shows that they clearly do have the authority despite what we were told by Bates and his cronies.

The following is about the penalty being allegedly too hard

Quote:
63. Mr Phillips also contended that the Board and the League in reaching their decisions acted unfairly and unreasonably. We have no hesitation in rejecting this argument. The Board came to the conclusion that the point’s deduction should be made a Condition of consent to the Cancellation of Withdrawal and Transfer as the most reasonable and proportionate way of protecting the legitimate needs underlying the Insolvency Policy. In doing so it rejected the other options open to the Board which included

(i) Simply expelling Leeds OldCo, so that Leeds United FC ceased to exist;
(ii) Allowing Leeds NewCo to join the Football League in L2, pursuant to regulation 11.


That reiterates the earlier point that the 15-point penalty was as a result of a special compromise/exception sought by Leeds (not the FL) to prevent something even worse from happening – as stated previously, not exactly something that Bates and his cronies made known to the fans.

I have obviously not quoted the entire document, just chosen the key paragraphs in my opinion. The rest follow the same stream of thought of simply give background anyway.

As I stated at the top – in my opinion – the blame lies squarely and wholly – on the shoulders of Bates, Harvey and Taylor. It is their actions that have put us in the position we are in – the lowest position we have ever been and in danger of staying there.

So you can believe all the crap about the FL and FA and refs and UEFA and FIFA and the CIA hating Leeds, but the fact is that an independent tribunal found against Leeds, an independent tribunal including a nominee from Leeds. And the tribunal has backed its decision with facts and documentary evidence of those facts. Bates has lied and manipulated the truth ever since he took over at Leeds (and before but its Leeds I'm concerned about) and I know who I believe.

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Why are we minus 15?
Because of Mawhinney - No
Because of the FL - No
Because of the other chairmen - No
Because of the FA - No
Because of the arbitration panel - No
Because of Bates and co - YES, YES YES
FOtKB&C
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tim
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:25 pm Reply with quote
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Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 668
You should get a Pulitzer Prize for that investigative work Harry. I retract my statements about us being stiffed by others in this case.
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Dave
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:59 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 1299 Location: Melbourne, Australia
And the award for longest post in forum history goes to...

I had a read through that document earlier today. You're right, a lot of stuff that had never been made public before. Thinking back to before the season, it was always clear that Bates was dodgy in securing his position at the club.

I can understand a lot of the blame must land with him but I still enjoy hating and blaming the Football League and will continue to do so. Twisted Evil

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